Pre-Birth Memories, NDEs, and Consciousness

And now, from beyond our dimension, this is the Jeff Mara Podcast. Here's Jeff.

Today's guest is Christian Sundberg. At the age of 30, Christian took up a meditation practice and went through a personal awakening journey as he remembered his existence before coming to Earth. During that time, he also began to have out-of-body experiences. Today, we're going to talk about that.

Christian, thank you so much for joining us and welcome.

Thank you. It's an honor to be here, Jeff. I appreciate it.

If you don't mind, can we just start when you took up the meditation practice? Can you give us a little background on how you started having these pre-birth memories?

Yeah, sure. So, my body is 41 years old right now. 11 years ago, at about the age of 30, I took up a long-term meditation practice because I began to follow the work of the physicist and consciousness explorer Tom Campbell. At first, it was just an intellectual process. I was just reading his book, watching his videos, and learning. But he recommended that the individual pursue meditation as a form of investigation.

So, I didn't have any expectation. I just began meditating every day. After a few months, I began to have non-physical experiences, out-of-body experiences. The first time I had one, it was very shocking and eye-opening. My worldview quickly changed.

Not long after that, I began to have memories return to me of a time that I existed before my human life here. This memory I recalled was something that I knew when I was young, before the age of six, but I had forgotten it after the age of six. So, all of my adult life, I did not have that memory. But now that it's returned, it's quite something that's on my mind every day because it's so real and in my face and integral to what I'm doing here.

First thing I'd like to know is, can you tell me about the meditation practice that you were doing? Is there a specific format of the meditation?

Yeah, so Tom Campbell has an exercise in his book which could be loosely described as transcendental meditation. But the form of the meditation I found is not particularly important. We like to think about form, about what words or what process we're using. So, we can call it transcendental meditation, but the important thing was that I gained the ability to control my focus and I gained increasing familiarity with my awareness itself beneath thought.

As that began to occur, larger parts of myself began to rise up on their own. So, if you wish, I can share just a brief summary of my rebirth experience if you'd like, and then we can probably speak more about the meditation.

Sure, yeah. So, okay, just as a very quick disclaimer, these things cannot be spoken about with language. I'm aware that your audience probably already knows this. I just have to say for those who may be listening that our true nature transcends form. It transcends the world of duality and the world of dense distinction that we experience here as humans.

The words we use in the human context are vastly insufficient to speak to who we truly are. The higher realms are our true nature. It just cannot be articulated. Okay, so that being said, I remember a very long time ago—and again, time is really hard to speak about too because while these memories do have a sequence, they're all happening at once, and they transcend the linear time that we experience commonly here on Earth.

Okay, but I remember engaging this being long ago before I had any physical incarnations at all. When I came across this being, I felt from him this incredible freedom, power, and beauty in his nature and who he was, what he had become. The nature of the being that he was, and I was deeply inspired by what I felt from him.

I asked him—and again, this isn't words, it's telepathic—I asked him, "My goodness, how did you get to be this? How did you become this?" And he shared with me that he had lived physical lives. He shared with me one in particular in which he had suffered. He had been sick or had some kind of physical painful ailment that lasted for many years, a long time.

The way in which he met that experience had a profound impact on who he was, on his nature, on his essence. It allowed a refinement and a growth towards love and freedom that was just unspeakably beautiful and powerful. So, I said, "I want to do that. I want to do that. I will do that."

He kind of at first almost playfully brushed me off like, "Yeah, that's what they all say. It's hard in a way that you don't know that you've never known before." But I was persistent. I said, "No, I really mean it. I want to do this." And he said, "Well, go talk to your guides."

So, I did, and I lived many lives since then. The majority of this memory that I have is of a time immediately preceding this human life where I had taken a long break after previous incarnations. After taking a long break, I remember this guy coming to me while I was resting, so to speak. I was in this realm of gold, and I was full of freedom, joy, and bliss.

But this guy came to me and occasionally asked, "Are you ready to go back yet? Are you ready to go back yet?" And I just kept putting him off for a while, and eventually said, "Okay, I'm ready."

Then, I reviewed with this guide what I can only describe as my state—who I was, who I had been, what I had done. It was very clear in this review what I needed to do, what I needed to work on, so to speak. I don't really like the word "work on." What I needed to experience and grow through.

The best English word we can use is that it was a fear. It was a very low-vibration experience that had bested me in a previous experience. So, I very much wanted to re-engage that because I knew that if I could do that, there would be an absolutely incredible growth permitted—a growth of being, a growth of the bliss and joy of being. And that I would be serving not only myself but I would be serving the whole.

If I could do this, if I could meet this experience, I was extremely excited at the opportunity, at the thought of doing this, even though I knew it would be very challenging. Eventually, they brought me a life for that purpose. I reviewed that life and I accepted that life.

I accepted the veil. The veil is just a word, but it is the constraints and consciousness space that we agreed to adopt in order to have a physical experience. It's very hard to explain or describe, but it feels like, at least for me, it felt like an amplifier that produces a pitch against a tone, like a vibration.

When you accept the veil, it's like diving deep down, down, down, and having your true being obscured. That pitch just drops down drastically. Once you get to the bottom, keep turning it down and then turn it down some more, and then more and more and more. Keep going and then turn it down some more. That's how it felt to come all the way down to this physical vantage point.

I knew that each physical lifetime was like a vibrational vantage point that we could arrive at, and this one was very low vibration, very dark. I really immediately resisted the feeling of not remembering all of who I really was and feeling cut off from my true nature. I felt like I had lost everything that I am.

So, I immediately responded in fear in this life. I was still in the womb at this point. I had not been born yet, but I summoned my might and I smoked the veil. I fought my way out. I pushed my way out past it and inadvertently then had killed the fetus. I had killed the body that was to be mine.

I had a life review for this very short life. I don't know how long I was there, but it was super short. In this life review, I knew that I had affected the mother in a very negative way. I had heaped sorrow on her and not only on her but on hundreds of other people that would be negatively impacted by the mother.

So, I had great intentions going in, but my fear was so great that I did not succeed. From that side, you know that all is well and it's okay. You can't truly fail, but I also very objectively knew, "Wow, I could do better than that. I really have a lot of fear. I got to work on that."

So, that life opportunity was wasted. Then, they brought me this life. This life was not as optimal as that life would have been. It wasn't bad. It was still pretty good, but it wasn't as perfect as the other one would have been. But it still had a lot of potential.

I remember reviewing this life in vast detail. I describe it like a flowchart of millions and millions of possibilities of what this life could be, how it might unfold, who I would be, and what it would feel like to be me at these various points throughout my life.

It was like if you took a tree and laid it on its side and you started at the thick part of the trunk and then worked your way out towards the branches. There were thinner, less likely branches, but there were some thicker branches that were very likely to happen. It was like that, except it was energetic and probabilistic about how my life would or could unfold.

So, I reviewed it with great excitement. I asked certain things about the life. I asked if I could, for instance, be intelligent in this life. I knew that I had preferred to be intelligent in previous lives, and they said yes, I could do that.

I knew that it would be important for me to be male in this life because I knew that being male would give me a certain kind of edge to face this fear. Not that females—that's nothing against the two sexes here. I just know that there's a certain quality to being male that happened to be helpful in this case for me to meet this certain fear.

I knew that my father in this life would instill confidence in me, and that that confidence would be paramount to me being able to have a chance to meet this fear when it arrived. In my 20s, it did arrive. I saw that there was a very likely chance that I would suffer a trauma in my 20s that would crush me and allow me to re-engage this fear.

That did happen. I did experience that. So, I reviewed all this, and then I know there was a moment to say yes. I don't remember that moment, but I do remember then being in a waiting area and waiting to begin. Then, this guy came to me and said, "Go now," very suddenly, grabbing my attention like, "Now's the time. You gotta get on Earth time now, buddy. Move it."

Then, I was with these guides that I can only describe as technicians or tinkerers. They're very mechanical in nature, and they do this thing where they match you with the life—the spirit, the soul of certain qualities, a certain nature to its essence—and the life has certain context and things going on with it in the body.

They do this thing where they make it all fit so that the veil is personal for you. So, then I was there in this room with them. I saw what looked like a huge pit leading down, and they asked me one last time, "Are you sure? Are you sure you want to do this? Because once you say yes here, you're in for the ride. There's no getting out of the roller coaster once you say yes here."

I agreed, and then I remember the veil coming over me once again and once again feeling this incredible descent, this incredible drop in vibration, and having my knowing be cut off. Feeling like everything that I was disappearing and all my connectedness feeling like it was vanishing.

Arriving to this place that just felt so dark, alone, empty, and dense—all those things. So, in this case, I just tried not to fight it because I knew that I had failed the previous time by rejecting it. So, I just said, "Okay, just let go. Surrender your control and let the veil do what it will do."

So, that happened, and I remember sending one message back to the technicians: "Did it take?" And they sent one message back: "Yes, it took." And I was happy and relieved that I had made it. I made it here.

So, then I was here for a while, and then after a while, I said, "You know what? I'm not doing this. This is so dark. This is so low vibration. I'm not myself. I'm not tolerating this. I'm not doing this."

So, once again, I began to muster my might to fight my way out. As I did that, this most beautiful moment happened for me that's very precious to me. What I can only describe as the great spirit of Source, God—whatever word we want to use—came to me and showed me, released me back out for a moment, and showed me all of what I was.

I felt all of the stars and the universe within me, and I felt the joy and the bliss of being. I felt the bliss of the sun churning, and how the very churning of the sun was full of bliss. The spirit said to me, "This is still what you are. You can never not be this."

So, that calmed me a lot. It really was like, "Oh, that's wonderful. That's still what I am. Okay, that's okay." So, I surrendered. I let go into the simple existence of being in the womb.

Then, I was there for a while, and the next memory I have is being born. I remember the shock of being born—the sight, sound, the sensory information, the cold touching. But I remember having no intellectual understanding at all. It was just totally like, "Something's happening. I don't know what it is. It's extreme. Who are these beings who are taking care of me?"

I could recognize there were beings that were doing things, but it was very shocking. I didn't have any understanding at all, but I remember being very curious. So, that's pretty much it.

Later, as I grew, I thought back to these memories, and I used to look back at the flowchart memory and cheat a little bit, try to see what was going to happen. Like, "Oh, what's going to happen tomorrow?" Just because, as a kid, you're curious about what's happening.

I remember assuming that certain things from that higher state of being, the other realities, would be true here. For instance, I remember assuming that everybody would be able to feel each other's emotions here because that's very normal in other reality systems—that we can share our feelings, we can share who we are.

That's not how it works on Earth. I also remember believing that people who are in positions of authority in this world would be loving and wise—like teachers, or if you're the mayor of a city, you must be super loving and wise. That kind of thing.

Well, that's not really how it works on Earth either. It took me years to realize, "Wow, this human society doesn't really know what's going on." Anyway, that memory left me by the age of five or six, definitely by seven, but probably by five or six.

So, I had no recollection of that at all. It wasn't until after I had experienced this great trauma at the age of 22 and spent about seven or eight years going through counseling, EMDR therapy through a counselor, and facing and feeling these levels of fear that had given rise to this experience in my 20s.

I faced and felt it and healed a great deal. I now know that only because I did that and then subsequently took up meditation that this awareness could return. Because now I'm at a different vantage point than I was before. I would not have been able to meet that experience and to really have that experience otherwise.

I appreciate you sharing that with us. Let's go back to the beginning here. When you met this being, did you feel like it was just a regular human, or do you feel like it was some kind of ascended master that had been on Earth and kind of mastered Earth?

So, we're not human. It's not a matter of whether he was human. Human is just a character that we experience being for a while. I actually don't know what race or even what world he was on or what. I don't know anything about that. I just know that he shared with me the physicality of his experience and the pain that he experienced in his physical body that lasted for years.

It could have been human, but I don't know. As for being an ascended master, all I can say is this being was incredibly evolved and powerful. That power, that quality of his nature, was so deep and apparent and feelable. I could feel it just being with him, and I could feel all that joy that he knew within himself.

So, does that make him an ascended master? I don't know. I wouldn't put a name on him. I don't know. I'm careful not to do that, but I just know that he was very evolved. So, in that sense, perhaps, but I don't know.

It appears that you came to this life with your main goal of being able to overcome fear. At this point in your life, do you think you've achieved that goal?

The quality of what I'm trying to do is too broad for a single path, but I have accomplished—I hate to use the word "accomplished" because it makes it sound so human-like—I have done an important part of the walk in this life, a very important part. I've taken a very important step.

I feel that I have integrated the main thing that I need to integrate in this life, but it's an ever-going thing. It's complex, and our limitations and our fears are not like one thing. They're connected to other things. So, it can be a lifelong walk.

So, if and when fear arises or pain arises, that's okay. I choose to allow that and experience that and not fight it. Every time, it is an opportunity. But I will say though that I am at a place now that is vastly different than who I used to be because I've been willing to face and feel the crap, own my own crap.

I'm still trying and working. I'm still trying to do that and work towards doing anything.

You were using the word "the veil." I feel like it's kind of a loose term from person to person. Some people will describe it as if they've pierced the veil, and now after they've had their NDE, they're able to keep tapping into other resources or abilities that they didn't have before this near-death experience, like as if there's a crack into it.

What is your opinion on that?

Yeah, I know. I think that is how it works. The veil is just a term we use. The way I like to describe it is it's a set of consciousness constraints that you agree to accept. To put it in a human metaphor, it's like wearing a cloak or getting into a spacesuit or something.

It's something that gets draped over you, over your pre-existing consciousness. We exist before we're born, and then when we have full access to all knowledge of who we are and what is, the veil allows us to be cloaked from the totality of what we are so that we can have the very precious experience of operating from the human vantage point.

It allows us to be this specific human character and to truly be this human character. The very precious rubber-meets-the-road thing is that you don't have full conscious memory access to everything else that you are. You have to be just the human character.

So, then when you're done with the experience, you can look back and say, "Oh my goodness, I was actually that. I had this perspective of being this person and only this person, and wow, that was incredible."

But what we really are never changes. This is super important. Our consciousness, our spirit itself, is always what we truly are, and it's always connected to all things. We are always ourselves. It can't truly be totally veiled.

The veil is simply a set of constraints that we've agreed to surrender ourselves to for a while. So, it's like something we wear. Near-death experiences—those who may have been relieved of it for a time—I do feel that it is pretty common that then once they're here, the veil is never fully applied in the same way again because they've already stepped past it.

So, you can't go back because now there's like—I guess "piercing the veil" is an okay physical metaphor. I mean, it's not a physical thing, but yeah, that's not a bad way to put it.

If you have pierced the veil, do you feel like that once you've had some type of an experience like that, is it lessening your experience now because it's kind of like in a game you have this advantage now?

Well, first of all, I would not say it's an advantage. In fact, I feel that having some active conscious awareness of our higher natures can be a disadvantage because the contrast is even greater.

Because now the contrast between there and here is known, at least in part, and the other side is such high vibration, so beautiful, so full of life, joy, power, freedom, and beauties that cannot even be named.

Having even the tiniest bit of awareness of that and being here can be super painful. It can also prompt a homesickness that can be debilitating.

As for does it lessen the human experience? Well, in my pre-birth memory, I remember asking to have a very small amount of memory this time. I didn't want to forget all the way, and they said that I could do that. They would make this life more challenging because of the contrast I just mentioned.

But I knew in that state that even that contrast was an opportunity for growth. Even that contrast—all contrast is a creative tool. It is an opportunity. So, I knew that was the case, and I agreed.

Now, does it change the human experience? Yes, it certainly changes the human experience. You know you're not the human character all the way, so that will change what is possible from the human experience.

Does that lessen it? I wouldn't say it lessens it. It's just a different type of experience with different opportunities. Again, our perspective is important. Where we operate from can provide a meaning or an opportunity.

So, if you change that with awareness of our higher selves, then there's just a different opportunity.

Just having some type of certainty that we even continue on after this life—and not only having that but, like you said, experiencing a place that's so amazing, connective, loving—re-experiencing that and then being back here brings up a whole new set of circumstances that you've got to learn to deal with.

Well, I'm very fortunate that I'm veiled. I relate to near-death experiencers who have really pierced the veil, so to speak, and they do suffer, like you just said, because now they have to deal with the new circumstances.

Do you think that as someone who has a near-death experience, that was planned before coming into this life?

So, sometimes those experiences are planned, and sometimes they're not planned. Just like certain exit points in our lives sometimes are planned and sometimes they're not.

In my case, I'm aware of at least one potential exit point that may happen in my future. I don't talk about it, but I know that it's possible. I feel that I've been reducing the probability of it occurring.

So, because of that, I feel that it's very possible that certain events like an NDE could be planned. But I think the thing is, this physical experience is a free-willed system. There are billions of people making choices every day.

While spirit is super good at anticipating the choices that will be made ahead of time, it is free will, and so unanticipated outcomes happen all the time. So, because of that, there is a novelty to this experience.

Actually, that's one of the main beautiful points that Earth offers—it offers a chance at true novelty. Because here, there are things that may happen that are not anticipated, and then we have to decide how we're going to deal with that.

So, sometimes even things like physical death or an accident could potentially happen in a way that was not anticipated, or it could be planned, depending.

I won't let everybody know that Christian has a new book out, and it's called A Walk in the Physical. This book draws from his pre-birth memories. I was taking a look at his book, and I have some questions here that I've kind of taken from your book.

First, simply, what in your opinion is consciousness?

So, when we're here on Earth, we perceive that reality is comprised of things—stars, trees, objects, linear time, discrete location. This is how we perceive reality. So, when we seek to understand reality with a thinking human mind, we want to know what things reality is.

So, when we ask a question like, "What is consciousness?" consciousness must be something, and there are these other things called stars and trees. So, what is consciousness? What other things can I associate with it that will let me understand what it is?

Unfortunately—actually, very fortunately—I should reiterate that fortunately, there is nothing that can truly describe what consciousness is because it is the substance of what is. It is the substrate within which all this form is arising and occurring.

So, you can't take a given descriptor, a given form, and say, "Oh, consciousness is that." Consciousness is the "that which is." It's the beingness that knows existence. It is the "I" perspective. It is the knower of the form. It is not the form itself.

I'm sorry if that sounds abstract, but I do feel that's very important because it's like the question, "Who is God? What is God?" You cannot potentially take some set of words and successfully say, "Oh, now we've identified what it is."

We can use metaphors. So, if you want to use a metaphor, consciousness is like—if existence is the ocean, consciousness is the water. The things that occur in the ocean are made of water. The currents move, and the water moves. The water has different salinity in different places, different temperatures, different movements, but it's all water.

That's an okay metaphor for what consciousness is.

Would you say that your body and what you are in this realm is a manifestation of consciousness in this realm, and when you leave this realm, consciousness—the "I am," as you said—is in another form?

Yes, oh yes. So, the body—this is going to sound pretty strange to some people—but the body is actually not a fundamental object that you're in. The body is an experience that is happening in you.

The "I" that is knowing having a body feels like it's the body, but the body is actually made of and is taking place within the consciousness of the participant itself.

There are states of being that you can know that physically feel it. It's like this inverted moment—I don't know how to describe it—where it's possible, through meditation or some action you can perform, to feel experientially know that your body is actually happening within your much greater, broader consciousness that transcends the locality of it.

Now, does that consciousness affect how the body manifests? Yes, very much. Our fears, our thoughts, our intentions, our love—all impact the body and its chemistry every day.

There are different sets of constraints we sign up for biologically. So, if you want to sign up and have a body that is missing a certain gene or has one arm or is blind, that is the nature of your constraints for that body for the lifetime.

So, there are certain limitations to what you can do. Well, I want to say there are limitations, but also there's not a true limitation because ultimately consciousness has the true power. So, technically, there's nothing that's beyond the scope of consciousness.

But realistically speaking, day-to-day speaking, there are such things as limitations that we deal with physically. And then we see how we operate within those limitations.

Can we affect those limitations? Definitely, very much so.

Based on what you're saying, that consciousness is what you are, then how does somebody have an out-of-body experience? If that is what you are, how does that separateness occur?

It's an excellent question, and it's actually so—the short comment is the body, your physical body, is an experience happening within you. And so are other reality systems that you can engage that are very physical and real-feeling, just like your body feels very physical.

There are higher states of being that are even more—at least as physical—they feel completely physical when you're there, but they're higher. They're different reality systems.

So, how is that occurring? Well, you don't actually have to leave a body because the body is—to borrow a term from Tom Campbell—it's virtual. It's an experience that is taking place on that which already exists, which is your consciousness itself.

So, it's more like your consciousness—think of it like a movie screen with a movie playing on it, but you can tune into other movies. So, now instead of the physical movie playing on it, you can go to another reality system, and now there's a completely different movie with completely different content, completely different rules, completely different everything on the same existing movie screen that never went anywhere.

Consciousness doesn't have to go anywhere. There is no such thing as discrete location. It's not like you're sitting there stuck in your body, and I'm sitting here stuck in my body. What's happening is you're conscious and aware, I'm conscious and aware, and we're having an experience that is virtual.

It seems like you're there, I'm here. It seems like this is my form, that's your form, but really what's happening is an experience—my experience, your experience, and the experience of everyone else listening today. That's really what's happening.

So, that consciousness that is knowing those things is not technically limited to the physical experience. Tom Campbell describes it as a data stream. Like, your consciousness is receiving a data stream, and if you tune into another reality, you are receiving a new data stream rather than the physical one.

In your book, you talk about the prism of the human mind. Can you tell us about that?

Yeah, so the reality that we're in right now is very dense and rigorous, but it's also neutral. So, what I talk about is how we place the meaning on our lives through interpretation and belief.

Okay, so then we believe something. When we're young, we're taught many things by our parents. Most of it we just absorb and buy into, and then as we get older, we may question those beliefs.

But whatever we believe about ourselves and about the world, that is how ourselves and the world appear to us. Okay, so like if you believe the world is a dark and evil place, you will see the evidence of that everywhere you look.

If you believe the world is a beautiful place, you will see the evidence of that everywhere you look. Not only because the mind tends to be selective of the information that it beholds, but also because consciousness is always applying the meaning.

So, Earth is an opportunity to have a certain cognitive perspective—the human perspective. And what I mean by the prism is the entire experience of this reality around us is bent to an appearance that aligns with exactly what we perceive about it, exactly what we believe about it.

So, our minds are very powerful, not only in that they change how we perceive the world, but also then whatever we expect and whatever intent we are wielding, and all of our choices—that very intent itself—those things are actually affecting the world physically too.

The world actually manifests differently depending on what's going on in our consciousness. So, the human mind is actually very important. We focus so much on things here—physical events, what we can see, smell, touch.

Even more important is what meaning are we placing upon it, and why, and who are we really? Who's the "I" that is doing that? That is the more fundamental question.

And as we explore that, oh man, there's so much amazing potential that we can have in our experience. We can change how we experience life, and we can change things in life for the better when we're able to do that within ourselves.

You just said we could change things in life for the better, but does that negate the point that what we came here for was to experience life of possible suffering or whatever we needed to learn?

Okay, so the possible suffering that we're here to experience—it's not that we come for suffering. We are beings of love, freedom, and joy. That's who we are.

And then we engage a reality of very high constraints. It's more about the extremity of constraints. It's not about required suffering. In fact, there's never technically a requirement to suffer.

There are only very extreme constraints that we try to engage the best we can, and that means that we try to meet with a quality of intent that is the best we can—that is loving intent and not fearful intent.

That's what the whole name of the game is about—love. Can we meet every given experience with love and all the things love means, and not fear and its ego and all the things that fear and ego mean?

So, we are allowed to be free of suffering in these constraints. In fact, that is a most worthwhile and beautiful thing to do. It's not that suffering has been created because it's necessary and it's this thing that we've got to have.

No, suffering happens because we're imperfect and we haven't evolved all the way yet. Suffering happens because we engage in a super high-constraint experience of separation, and then we panic because now that we're separate, "Oh my gosh, I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's real. I feel like I have no power."

And then fear arises, and then once the fear arises, we spend so much effort and energy in our lives trying to cover up and heal that fear, do whatever we can to fix that fear. That's what the ego does.

Any belief I can grab onto that'll make me feel better about myself or my group, I'll grab onto that. Or anything I can define what I have value now because now I did good in college, or I got a good-paying job, like I have money in my bank account, so now I'm worthwhile.

The ego plays all the tricks it can to try to fix the problem, which is that we feel separate and that we don't fully remember who we are. But none of that—nothing in none of that is suffering actually required.

It's that we come here to do our very best to meet those experiences the best we can, and as we all evolve towards love, suffering will very greatly reduce and diminish, and perhaps someday even be mostly gone.

I mean, there's going to be physical pain. I'm not including physical pain in the term suffering. Physical pain may happen, but even physical pain itself is just a sensation. It doesn't have a meaning on it until you put a meaning on it.

So, in that case, even physical pain is not an unacceptable experience. And I say that coming from a lifetime of knowing pain. That's what I'm here to deal with—my fear that I'm here to deal with is the inability to escape pain.

So, I don't say that lightly. I know that it can be very, very hard to meet one's experience with openness, acceptance, presence, and love when you're in pain. But is there a need ever to suffer through that? Technically, no.

In fact, it is a great calling to do the very best we can to heal that suffering, to heal the world. That's a wonderful thing.

So, it's not that we sign up just for suffering. It's that we sign up for high constraint, and then we see the very best how good can we do in that contrast.

Now, it can be useful for others. There are experiences that can be had only through certain high-contrast situations, definitely. But will those high-contrast situations perpetuate forever? Is that the goal? No.

The goal is to evolve towards love, to really evolve what we truly are so that even those high-contrast situations can be met with love, peace, joy, and presence. And when we do that, suffering will no longer arise.

Are you saying that we have ego because that helps us with our ability to handle fear, or is ego something separate than fear, and that's something else that we need to work on? And if so, how do we work on reducing our ego?

Yeah, I feel that ego arises from fear. It is simply the term we use for the portion of the self—the portion of the human personality, the portion of the self, not the higher self, the local personality—the portion of the self that tries to fix the problem of fear.

So, ego is a direct sign towards fear. Where there is ego, there's a fear somewhere—maybe hundreds of layers down, maybe under hundreds of layers of story and crap, but at the bottom of that is something we're not willing to face or feel, something we reject, something that prompts a huge amount of fear in us.

So, ego is actually a helpful signpost because it can be like, "When you identify in yourself, what is it that you're afraid of? What is it in what way are you rejecting reality that you have this ego?"

So, you don't really need to work on ego. You basically need to work on fear, and ego will dissipate on its own.

Yes, I think that's an okay way to put it, but for those who are not able to locate a root fear, which is very common, start with ego because ego is the surface. So, you have to start at the surface to get down to the root.

I've never been a Buddhist, so I don't know for sure what they do, but I feel like being a Buddhist monk is something that's pretty much an experience of trying to be egoless.

So, if the idea of being egoless is arising from ego, it is still ego. But if the attempt to face ego is true of heart, true intent, then they will be given opportunities, like all of us will, to face and feel what is necessary.

I mean, all of us are here to evolve towards love, which includes facing fear and ego because that's what we really are—love.

So, when we're ready to do that, whatever the context—whether it be Buddhist or some other context—when we're really ready to do that, or we're actually ready—not just in my mind like, "I'm spiritual now. I'm going to do the spiritual thing. See, look how good I am."

I mean, when you're really ready to own your crap and to, with humility, meet your own garbage, take ownership for your own life, take ownership for yourself—you've had enough suffering from all the ego that's not ultimately working—then the universe will give you opportunities.

Your higher self will give you opportunities. These things will arise for you to be faced and felt, no matter the context.

Do you think that the point of coming to Earth is only for personal growth?

No. Any time the word "only" is in there, it's probably not accurate because spirit is very broad and in its totality.

Okay, so the primary thing that the universe offers is the opportunity for the expansion of joy and love through the integration of experience through choice-making.

But we are also extremely creative beings, and so another major thing that the physical experience offers is the ability to participate in creativity in very new ways. In fact, a lot of people are here on Earth with life intentions that are based in creativity—sometimes very unique goals of creativity that won't even make sense to the human mind.

But we are so creative that, boy, this is one heck of a canvas if you can metaphorically paint the picture on Earth or maybe even literally. Wow, that is an incredible feat.

Another thing that we do here on Earth is we come for each other. You know, because others have come, and we love each other, and we want to serve each other and help each other.

So, many people come just to play some role or be some person or some support for a friend or a family member. The words "friend" and "family member" are hard to differentiate because we're all very deeply connected to each other. We're all family.

But for our family, we come to serve them in some way, and that would be an intention born primarily out of love.

Now, does it have to be only one of these things? No, of course not. All experience is rich in its opportunity, and it's just that being human and being on Earth is such an extreme and unique and high-contrast opportunity that it's just chock full of potential.

It's chock full of—I don't know how else to put it—the language really limits this. It's full of what can arise from it, the ways we can change, the ways we can serve each other, the things we can create through it.

And then that change that we do in ourselves, by the way, not only is local here on Earth, we also are affecting other reality systems right now just by being here.

There are entire other reality systems that are thought-responsive that arise from the thought environment of Earth. That sounds super abstract, but even doing things on Earth in that way affects other reality systems.

We're participating in other reality systems without even knowing. So, it's a pretty broad question, but I'll just say that expansion of what we are, expansion of love and joy, is the primary thing, but it's far faster than that.

I talk to UFO people, and I talk to some near-death experiencers that when they're out there in the astral or whatever you want to call it, some people will see God or Jesus or angels, but some people will see aliens.

And you just mentioned other realities. What is your opinion on that? As I bring this up to you, what is my opinion on which aspect of that?

Well, what do you think about? Do you think that what other realities are—are consciousness living as other beings like alien beings?

Yes. This doesn't have to be a human. It can be a gerbil, or it can be an alien on another planet. Our galaxy is ridiculously vast, talking hundreds of billions of stars, each with its own systems.

There are probably many planets out there, and so incarnation can occur on any of them. It doesn't have to happen on Earth. But then our entire physical experience—okay, our entire physical system—imagine it metaphorically like a video game server.

It's one server. You don't have to come to this server. You can log into a different server, some with very different rules. And there are systems above systems. The astral is just the word we use for the thought-responsive reality system.

Typically, the way it's used is the thought-responsive reality system preceding ours, where thoughts are like physical objects, and there's a lot that takes place from there. But that's just another system.

So, yes, consciousness knows it all. The knower is the shared root, and that knower can be many things. Like right now, we are playing being humans, or we're not just the human either. We are still our higher selves, which just means the higher portion of us that can do many other things too.

And so, it may be that someone listening today is actually playing another character somewhere else, maybe even on the same planet. I don't know. There's a lot of things possible that we don't often consider.

So, it's very vast. So, I don't know if that speaks to your question, but it's hard to nail down one comment in such a broad context.

I just wanted to kind of pick your brain and see what you thought about that subject.

What you just mentioned about our higher selves is a thing that I still kind of consider and try to wrap my head around—as you know, part of us is here, part of us is somewhere else, maybe the even bigger part of us is somewhere else.

Yes, and maybe that part of us can be even doing something simultaneously as we are while we're here. Do you think that even when we're dreaming, are we tapping into our higher self in other places?

So, to your initial question, yes, our higher self is doing other things. But you got to remember though—okay, this gets kind of hard to talk about from here because linear time itself on Earth is a creation. It's an invention.

So, we like to think of everything in terms of the A-to-B time that we experience on Earth, but that time is not even fundamental. So, of course, the higher portion of us that is not bound to it is capable of things that to us seem simultaneous.

Okay, so, but that being said, when we're asleep, we do visit other portions of ourselves, or the human personality portion of us will go do things.

And sometimes I feel that dreams are interpretations of those other experiences into the experience language of the human personality. Sometimes dreams are—I feel, I think probably most of the time—dreams are something that our own psyche is creating within its own symbolism to help us deal with things in our lives that we need to process.

Or they could even be of biological origin. You screw with brain chemistry, you can prompt dreams. But we do go have other experiences while our bodies sleep, and sometimes I feel that dreams are an interpretation of those experiences.

I've had out-of-body experiences while my body sleeps in which I've interacted with other individuals where the environment may appear extremely Earth-like, but our bodies are not awake. We're in another place that is very physical, real—so real you almost can't tell the difference.

I mean, it's just super real. Where is that taking place? Well, I would put terms on it, but I would say that's somewhere in the astral, perhaps in a thought-responsive place.

I don't try to label that too easily. It's not really that important that we label it, at least that's how I feel. I feel like the human mind wants to categorize everything and put it in nice, neat buckets, but again, we're doing that from the human perspective, which is based on Earth, and so there's quite a limitation there.

It's better to just go experience it and draw one's own conclusions about the structure.

All right, well, I need to switch gears on you here because I'm running out of time. Where can someone find your new book?

So, my new book, A Walk in the Physical, is on Amazon, but I also have it available for free on my website, iwalkinthephysical.com. The third link down on the book page is a link to the Google Books page, and there is a "Read for Free" button.

You can look at it for free. I think it's important that we share this information. It's not about money. It's just important that we allow each other to share who we really are while we're here.

The book is—I feel, to be honest—I feel like it's my life's work. It is my attempt to articulate the higher context of what we're experiencing in a concise way. It's non-linear, which some people may enjoy and some people may not, but it is the way that I felt guided by spirit to present it.

So, I hope to be encouraging to those who read it, to help them sense who they really are underneath the human character and to know that there's nothing to fear. That's the main thing I really want to say—like, everyone who's listening today, being human is not easy.

Okay, and I know there are super lots of reasons to be afraid, but ultimately, there is no reason to fear. There is ultimately no death, no actual true harm that can befall us, and most importantly, we are always, always, always loved—always so deeply loved.

Like, whoever you are listening, not just this general nice fairytale love—I'm talking universe-generating, sun-churning love specifically for you. And you may be veiled from that for a while, but it is right there.

And I really hope to remind you of that while you're here because that's like the most important thing we do for each other while we're here—remind each other this is who we really are, and there's nothing to fear, and love is always there for us.

What do you think is the best way for people to overcome their fear?

So, there's a term from—I'll borrow from Tom Campbell again—that I think is really key to that question, and that is "quality of intent."

So, each person can find an awful lot about themselves if they really investigate the quality of their own intention. Why are they—why are you making the decision you're making today? Really, why? Are you willing to actually look and see—is it rooted in fear, or is it rooted in love?

And as we are with so—willingness is key. Willingness and willingness not only to face and feel what's in there but willingness to own what's in there and to go find out what our quality of intent is and to try to improve it towards love.

As we do that, there will be things that rise up for us to face and feel because we are integrators of experience. That's what we're doing. We are consciousness. We are the beings who are processing this, having this human experience, and doing what we can with it.

So, when you're really willing to do that, and you're really willing to own your life and own your stuff and face and feel what is arising in your life, you'll be given the opportunities to do that in a very personal way.

Maybe small, tiny little ways—it's not one activity that anyone can do. It's highly personal, but when you're willing to do it, you will be given a chance.

And the good news is that process is a beautiful, good process, even if there are moments that you may need to face old fears or pains that you've buried for your whole lifetime that seem super dark.

If you're willing to face that stuff, freedom is what we are. It's on the other side. It's waiting for you. Like, there's no—the more painful thing is to be stuck in all the stories of the ego forever and ever and to be living your fear all the time. That hurts.

And many of us hurt so much in our lives for so many years, eventually we go, "You know what? I'm sick of being afraid. I'm sick of hurting. I'm sick of this." And then sometimes it takes us getting to that point that we're willing to actually own the crap when it comes up and face and feel the things that come up when they do.

So, it's very personal, so I can't say just one thing, but willingness is key—willingness to find our own intention and what that intention is.

All right, after watching this podcast, people may want to reach out to you and question you directly or contact you. Are you open to that, and if so, how may they contact you?

Yeah, sure. I'm open to that. I have an email, awalkinthephysical@gmail.com. That's the same email address that's listed on the website, so they can just email me there.

And yeah, I'm happy to speak to anybody who would like. It's important that we remind each other. I know this can seem pretty out there sometimes, but the truth is very freeing.

So, yeah, I'm happy to interact with anybody. We're out in the wilderness now together, you know. We're out here in the weeds right now, all of us listening today that are physical. I'm sure there are non-physical beings listening too, perhaps, but the physical ones among us—we're out in the wilderness together.

You know, we got to give each other a little fist bump in the middle of the woods and give each other encouragement. We can't because it's not easy. I know it's not easy. I know it's not easy.

So, I'm happy to help in a small way if I can.

Well, you've given us some good stuff, but before we finish, is there one last positive message that you can leave us with?

Yeah, I just want to reiterate that whoever you are, you are loved, and you are not just the human character that you're playing.

Like, who are you then if you're not the human character? If you're not your name, who are you? You're you—the you that feels like you to you, the you that most feels like you to you, the "I" that you feel, the precious "I" that you feel within yourself.

That's who you are. That thing may be tied up within the human identity for a while, but that's not really what you are. Who you are far transcends it.

So, when your story, when the things you believe that make your life dark and painful get wrapped up, allow yourself the space to step back and feel just for a moment underneath the story—who are you?

Because man, there's so much power in that. It's far more powerful than we may think of day-to-day. So, I hope to encourage whoever's listening to do that and to remember, at least in small part, that you're not just the human character while you're on Earth right now.

Well, thank you for that message, Christian, and thank you so much for being my guest. I really appreciate you, and I wish you the best.

Thank you very much, sir. I appreciate it very much.

All right, have a great rest of your day.

Thank you.

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